No talk about WoHS

[softball93]

With all this talk lately about Poquoson, New Kent, York, KHS, Warwick and Gloucester has everyone forgotten Woodside. This is a strong contender who almost beat Gloucester last year. I am sure Coach Talon has these girls ready for the other schools. This is a team that is scarry they have speed pitching and defense.

[underdog562]

As we all know Softball93, almost doesn’t count. Not mentioning that they almost beat them last year since then Woodside has lost many crucial assets to the team: the shortstop, the pitcher/first base and more.Bethel beat Gloucester and Warwick last year but look at them this year after losing a few crucial seniors! That was then this is NOW! Woodside has done nothing to be talked about! Yea sure they are 2-0 but who have they played? They will have their time to be measured when they come across teams like Gloucester, Warwick, and Kecoughtan. Then will be talked about only thing is will they want to be talked about? probably not. Be careful what you wish for! Woodside will probably finish in fourth or fifth place. Defiantly NOT top 3 and that to me is not even worth mentioning. Everybody wants recognition and have nothing to be recognized for! :mad:

[softball93]

Easy underdog, Woodside is still a force to be reconed with. They have a couple of 1st team players from last years team who are only sophomores this year. They have speed and power behind the plate. The speed girls do know how to get on base. Adino and Rodrigues can go long. I think the "top three" do have something to worry about. When you pitch every game you throw better than when you throw part time.

[underdog562]

Adino and Rodrigues can go long. I think the "top three" do have something to worry about. When you pitch every game you throw better than when you throw part time.


Woodside, will be a middle contender for sure, fourth or fifth place but not among the top. This will be a building year for them. They do have a few good players, but only one made 1st team. Rodrigues and Adino??? How many homeruns did they have last year and who did they hit them off of. Hoffer is a player I can see getting on base form time to time against these teams. I recall Coach Talon saying last year that WHS beat WoHS the worse in his history. Let me point something else out, 3 descent players is not enough against teams like GHS & WHS ask Bethel. Only 3 of their players were competive against WHS pitching, but they were able to run the score up on Pheobus. Like Woodside have been doing against simular teams. I disagree when you pitch every game you throw better; WHS pitchers proved that theory wrong. They share mound time and has had quite a bit of success.

[6 HOLE]

Andino did hit one out against Coates at Woodside.

[Peninsula fan]

Coach T. will be the first to tell you that his team is a middle of the pack group. Too many youngsters and not enough quality down the lineup. Next year they will definitely be in the mix, but not this year and as I previously stated he will be the first to say this. I can promise you this, they won't back down for anyone. Woodside only has 3 so called real quality players on the whole team. The top three teams have at least seven each, at least.
The most talented team: Warwick - Number two: Gloucester Number three: Kecoughtan. Coach T. picked Kecoughtan to be the upset monster this year and so far they are right on the line of doing so. Everyone is correct however in saying the team from the Wood will be pressing it to get near the top 3. However you want to knock them better watch out next year, not this one.

[softball4girls]

Andino did hit one out against Coates at Woodside.
good for her but one HR is nothing to brag about. How many times did Coates strike her out.

[softball93]

Coach Talon is a master at downplaying his team Look at the team he won the state with. He finished 3rd in the district behind Bethel and KHS. I am not saying that Woodside is going to win the district I'm just saying the PD better watch out "this year". Coach Talon is just where he wants to be, in my humble opinion.

[Peninsula fan]

Yeah right. Coach T. is a master of telling it like it is. He never downplays or overplays anything and he certainly is good at recognizing talent, even his own. Exactly why when he says they are maybe a year away, they are maybe a year away.
Oh yeah, glad you brought up that state championship team too. They had the fourth best pitcher in the district that year too, and they were by far the slowest team. Miller had great control and a stop dead change but only threw it 57-58 on a good day. They were however a great team in the team sense. Guess that chemistry thing matters huh?:)
They did play great defense the last 9 games... great!

[softball93]

Wait asnd see.

[softball4girls]

Kecoughtan tomorrow:D Dude, that should generate some talk about WoHS.

[Peninsula fan]

To be sure. Most likely it will make Coach T's comments come true about them being a year away. Should be a fun game.

[sportsfan1]

Yeah right. Coach T. is a master of telling it like it is. He never downplays or overplays anything and he certainly is good at recognizing talent, even his own. Exactly why when he says they are maybe a year away, they are maybe a year away.
Oh yeah, glad you brought up that state championship team too. They had the fourth best pitcher in the district that year too, and they were by far the slowest team. Miller had great control and a stop dead change but only threw it 57-58 on a good day. They were however a great team in the team sense. Guess that chemistry thing matters huh?:)
They did play great defense the last 9 games... great!


I went to most of Woodsides games the year they won states. Holly miller and her catcher Laura Drebitko had great chemistry as did the rest of the team. Those 2 played for Orion Hunter travel team and Holly was great because she didn't care about throwing a fast ball. Anyone can catch up to a fast ball but her off speeds and movement kept everyone off balance. Of course, they had Mickey Rodriguez has a back up pitcher that year and so much talent all the way around. Chemistry is a big part!

[PDSBFan]

The Team that won state was a good team, but not a great team. I am not hating on them, but if I remember correctly they finished third in the PD regular season and second in the regional tournament. Many balls bounced their way at the end of the season. They were a good team with Miller, Drebitko and Rodrigez, but the most taented person on that team was Jen Nuzzo. In my opinion she is probably the best to ever play PD softball.

[softball93]

The Team that won state was a good team, but not a great team. I am not hating on them, but if I remember correctly they finished third in the PD regular season and second in the regional tournament. Many balls bounced their way at the end of the season. They were a good team with Miller, Drebitko and Rodrigez, but the most taented person on that team was Jen Nuzzo. In my opinion she is probably the best to ever play PD softball.

Best ever wow that is a lot of girls. Wolfe from Bethel, Diggs from Phoebus, Cobb from I believe Denbigh. There was a great ss at Warwick a few years ago. What about Coats? To say she is the best ever is saying a lot. She was very good but I am not sure the best ever.

[PDSBFan]

Wolf and Diggs were great players. I can't remember the WaHS SS's name but she ended up at GMU and was another great player. I have been around the PD for a few years and remember Nuzzo as being a special player. She played the game like no one I have ever seen in this area. In my opinion she was a much better softball player than BBall. If she would have played summer softball she would have so many D-1 colleges after her.

[PDSBFan]

Corey Stokes was the outstanding player from WaHS. She probably graduated around 2000.

[softball93]

Corey Stokes that was it yea somewhere around 2000. Where did you come up with that PDSBFan? As for a prediction I have to agree this will be low scoring and too close to call. If I to pick I would pick KHS by 1. I think they have stonger pitching and more experience. I do however think WoHS is much better than most people give them credit for. I do think they will upset one or both of the top two before the year is over. The edge they have is that they are undefeated and unscored upon. I know they haven't had the strongest schedule but no one has scored on them yet.

[PDSBFan]

I remember Corey because I have been following PD softball for a few years and I remember great players. I believe she was at GMU for four years, but wasn't able to play the entire time because of a broken hand/wrist/arm.

[Peninsula fan]

Just to add some comments to all thats being said. Coates is definitley one of the best, Maggie Wolf for sure, Nuzzo for sure who was definitely a better softball player than basketball,(just ask tallon -he coached her in both, she just likes basketball better:rolleyes:) Holly Miller didn't throw that many fast balls for three reasons: 1-she didn't really have a great one 2- her change and drop were her two best pitches 3-Tallon called all her pitches anyway. Another name worth mentioning pre-Coates, Byrd, and Atkins era is Kim Rowe. Super player for Bethel. That same year in fact Phoebus had an exceptional pitcher and lets not forget about the Cave sisters at Kecoughtan either. Samatha Cave was a super pitcher. Bethel and Kecoughtan have had some great players. Woodside has had four not counting the two sophs they have now. Woodside again is the fourth best team in the PD. Kecoughtan has too much talent and depth top to bottom. The Wood has maybe four good, quality players this year. Again.... a year away.

[sassafrass]

I predict a big day for KHS. Granted, Woodside is 4 and 0 but you must look at their schedule so far. They have played Denbigh, Phoebus, Heritage and Hampton. Kecoughtan is 2 and 2 but their losses came against Warwick and Gloucester both losses by one run and the loss to Gloucester was in extra innings.

Good luck to both teams though it should be a good game.

[twiceasnice757]

A big game today for those Wolverines. A convincing win by Woodside solidifies them as the team to beat. They are simply flying under the radar right now, exactly what they want to do. People speak on the early part of their schedule, but they are doing what very good teams do, they are dominating sub par opponents, they aren't allowing teams to hang around, they have come to play every game this year. Andino and Hoeffer are the truth both offensively and defensively, either can single handedly win a game for you(not to mention they are only sophs.). I'm just saying, Kecoughtan better be swinging a hot bat, because Woodside will manufacture runs. May the better team win.

[sassafrass]

I'm sure the wolverines are a good team, all of them, not just two players.

Kecoughtan has strong defense, offense and pitching, so don't worry about their bats.

It should be a great game for both teams

[WOHS Softball Fan]

Woodside went 1-1 with Kecoughtan last year during the season and in the District Tournament we beat them. I agree with Coach Tallon, we are a year away from being good! Good Luck to both teams!

[softball93]

Woodside, will be a middle contender for sure, fourth or fifth place but not among the top. This will be a building year for them. They do have a few good players, but only one made 1st team. Rodrigues and Adino??? How many homeruns did they have last year and who did they hit them off of. Hoffer is a player I can see getting on base form time to time against these teams. I recall Coach Talon saying last year that WHS beat WoHS the worse in his history. Let me point something else out, 3 descent players is not enough against teams like GHS & WHS ask Bethel. Only 3 of their players were competive against WHS pitching, but they were able to run the score up on Pheobus. Like Woodside have been doing against simular teams. I disagree when you pitch every game you throw better; WHS pitchers proved that theory wrong. They share mound time and has had quite a bit of success.

4th or 5th huh now they are comming after YOU.

[tidewaterbaseballfan]

The Team that won state was a good team, but not a great team. I am not hating on them, but if I remember correctly they finished third in the PD regular season and second in the regional tournament. Many balls bounced their way at the end of the season. They were a good team with Miller, Drebitko and Rodrigez, but the most taented person on that team was Jen Nuzzo. In my opinion she is probably the best to ever play PD softball.


How can you downplay a state championship? They were the best in the state and proved it on the field.

[PDSBFan]

So are you saying that the best team always wins? I can think of many games when a weaker team pulls together one great/lucky inning and beats a better team. That makes them better that day not overall.
That team was a good team and am still very excited and proud that a team from our side of the water won a state title.

[twiceasnice757]

I'm sure the wolverines are a good team, all of them, not just two players.

Kecoughtan has strong defense, offense and pitching, so don't worry about their bats.

It should be a great game for both teams

Well, to tell it like it is. Woodside has 4 okay/decent players, 2 good players, 1 star, and 2 superstars.

[softball4girls]

So are you saying that the best team always wins? I can think of many games when a weaker team pulls together one great/lucky inning and beats a better team. That makes them better that day not overall.


I have to agree that the better team can loose the game. It happens . I think this is true for the Woodside vs Kecoughtan, GHS vs Warwick and WHS vs MHS. These were big upsets in the PD. Woodside is now the team to beat, but wait til after spring break so we can put them to the test. WHS & GHS back to back. Woodside can enjoy being undefeated for a while longer. They earned that right. I've seen WoHS pitcher in action. She's a good pitcher when she's not challegened. What will she do against stronger offesive teams? If you hit her, you rattle her and the attitude goes down hill. She's never pitched a complete game against GHS and I don't think she's ever pitched the whole game against WHS either. They've always had to switch her in and out. Dude... I know your excited about your win, but don't be too cocky just yet wait til you go against the PD's top teams. Prove this wasn't a QUIRK, because they've been going around lately.

[red J whs]

Prove this wasn't a QUIRK, because they've been going around lately.
You took the words right out of my mouth.:)

[twiceasnice757]

I have to agree that the better team can loose the game. It happens . I think this is true for the Woodside vs Kecoughtan, GHS vs Warwick and WHS vs MHS. These were big upsets in the PD. Woodside is now the team to beat, but wait til after spring break so we can put them to the test. WHS & GHS back to back. Woodside can enjoy being undefeated for a while longer. They earned that right. I've seen WoHS pitcher in action. She's a good pitcher when she's not challegened. What will she do against stronger offesive teams? If you hit her, you rattle her and the attitude goes down hill. She's never pitched a complete game against GHS and I don't think she's ever pitched the whole game against WHS either. They've always had to switch her in and out. Dude... I know your excited about your win, but don't be too cocky just yet wait til you go against the PD's top teams. Prove this wasn't a QUIRK, because they've been going around lately.

You know what, I can't agrue with you. Well, except for one point you made. Kecougtan is not better than Woodside. Kecoughtan had made three solid players, they pitched around Alexander, so she must legit. But we all know, speed and pitching is the name of the game in softball, and Woodside has that on Kecoughtan. But you're right, you can rattle Andino, but then again, this isn't the same Andino that pitched on and off last year, she may have pitched 20 innings all year last year. She's bigger, faster, stronger, and smarter now. But, still alot of ball left to be played, but this win is definitely something to build on. And you're right, we'll know alot more about Woodside in the coming weeks.

[Peninsula fan]

To Tidewater baseball fan. Woodside won the regionals the same year. They were runnerups the year before. The three state games were with no errors and were all one run games. Two were shut outs 1-0 and 1-0 the other was 2-1. Woodside remains the only PD team to ever win a regional much less a state championship. The also crushed Bethel the district champions that same year in the district tourney finals by a score of 13-1. This was against their ace Kim Rowe.
Get your facts straight before you downplay the their accompolishments. They were the best that year regardless of how they started. Peace.:focus:

[Peninsula fan]

Also softball 93. Andino was second team. Daisy Rodriquez was 1st with Hoeffer and Sofia Rodriquez was second team. What's your point? Are you saying that in order for a team to be super good they must have x number of all-district players? By the way Andino should have been first at first last year too. Her stats were better but a senior was ahead of her with lower stats top to bottom. Stats again, don't mean everything unless its against good competition. Thats where people get jaded. Woodside this year most likely top to bottom has the 5th most talented team. Games still must be played. The begining is not as important as the end. Teams can get worse or better through the course of a season.:focus:

[Peninsula fan]

Good grief this is getting stupid. Andino pitched at least 85 innings last year as a freshman . Tallon used her as a change of pace to Rodriquez depending on the situations and to give her a chance to learn. She's only been pitching about a two years at a serious level. Amazing how much people assume and think they know because the watch these kids every so often and not under everyday situations.
Some people have to make do with what they are given..... Check out the rest of the PD and compare the talent.:focus:

[softball93]

Also softball 93. Andino was second team. Daisy Rodriquez was 1st with Hoeffer and Sofia Rodriquez was second team. What's your point? Are you saying that in order for a team to be super good they must have x number of all-district players? By the way Andino should have been first at first last year too. Her stats were better but a senior was ahead of her with lower stats top to bottom. Stats again, don't mean everything unless its against good competition. Thats where people get jaded. Woodside this year most likely top to bottom has the 5th most talented team. Games still must be played. The begining is not as important as the end. Teams can get worse or better through the course of a season.:focus:


Easy peninsula fan remember I started this thread to applaud the efforts of WoHS. It is not you against the world. There are those of us who do not go to every Woodside game and follow them religously but we can appreciate what they are doing in the district. And I do think we are on topic. I am however very impress with your knowledge of the past glories of your team. Do you remember the batting order and averages of those players as well?

[twiceasnice757]

Good grief this is getting stupid. Andino pitched at least 85 innings last year as a freshman . Tallon used her as a change of pace to Rodriquez depending on the situations and to give her a chance to learn. She's only been pitching about a two years at a serious level. Amazing how much people assume and think they know because the watch these kids every so often and not under everyday situations.
Some people have to make do with what they are given..... Check out the rest of the PD and compare the talent.:focus:
Are you kidding me? Let's see, Woodside played what, 20 games last year. So you're saying Andino pitched an average of over 4.25 innings per game last year. You gotta be kidding me. Rodriguez pitched the bulk of the innings, not less than half of them.

[WOHS Softball Fan]

Rodriguez was out quite a few games last year because she was in a car accident. Andino had to pitch those games. Andino is a good pitcher, and is getting better the more she pitches. Great job Wednesday Gabby! :clap2:

[twiceasnice757]

That's true, I forgot she was out. I believe I mentioned she pitched maybe 20 innings last year, so it was more than that. But there is no way she pitched 85 innings like one user said previously. Many times Gabby would only pitch the last 1/3 of an inning to get the out.

[underdog562]

I`m sorry guys but I`m not sure why everyone is saying that Woodside is a year away.Look at how they played against the top teams last year. They had one bad game with Warwick,

There first game with Warwick wasn't as bad but the score was 8-0. It was a no hitter. They lost some key players from last year, but they are still looking good so far. After Spring Break they'll be put to the test. Can Adino stand the pressure. Who is Woodside's back up this year because Warwick has always seen two pitchers when they play WoHS. I just don't think WoHS has debt to go along way.

[WoHS Football]

really woodside will finish first or second depending on the games against warwick and gloucester but really if they are a year away why are they 6-0 THIS year adino is one of the better pitchers in the PD and hoeffer is well a beast, Hale can hit very well, as can rodriguez

[softballfan9]

Really, Woodside has done its best to stay "under the radar." In my opinion, the schedule helped out a lot, and they've done a really good job of not being noticed. Aside from all that, people are going to have to watch for Woodside, they have a young team, but they also have a lot of talent and speed.

[Peninsula fan]

Wow. Now all of a sudden Woodside has all this talent. Earlier they only had 3 or 4 players. Guess what? THats still the way it is. They are simply playing well together as a unit and executing somewhat. Andino did log 80-85 innings last year also. They played exactly 20 games. There will be many upsets before its over. The three best teams are still as they were in the begining. Kudo's to the kids on Woodside Lane for simply playing together as a unit. You will never hear of any bickering on that team regardless of the score. Tallon won't allow it.
Kudo's to the PD and all the coaches for raising the level of play each year. They generally deal with what they have. Some just do it better than others.... thats high school athletics. The players and coaches don't always get the credit they all deserve. It would be more fun just to give each team credit for what they do, not what they might do. All this other stuff is just speculation and posturing. I guess that is fun for the kids... shouldn't be for adults.

[softballfan9]

Woodside softball plays well together, correct. But do they really get along all the time ? No. No team is perfect, as we all can see, and everyone's each others enemy. Woodside has plenty more than '3 or 4 girls with talent', I don't care what way you put it. But, you know, since Warwick and Gloucester are the only teams 'full of talent', we'll see how things unfold eventually.

[underdog562]

Woodside softball plays well together, correct. But do they really get along all the time ? No. No team is perfect, as we all can see, and everyone's each others enemy. Woodside has plenty more than '3 or 4 girls with talent', I don't care what way you put it. But, you know, since Warwick and Gloucester are the only teams 'full of talent', we'll see how things unfold eventually.

Winning together is easy. Let's see how they loose together. Woodside get ready to play the most walked team in the PD. Intentionally walked with good purpose. WHS will keep the pressure on.

[WOHS Softball Fan]

Underdog562 there is one thing I will say, if we do lose we will not have parents on this thread like you giving excuses on why you lost or that you played a low team. Menchville is a good team. A loss is a loss, A win is a win! Our girls do get along very well. Coach Tallon would not have it any other way. Our team is very close. True, WE are winning, but we do know that we have two good teams to play after springbreak and we are ready for that challenge! GOOD LUCK TO ALL TEAMS!

[underdog562]

[quote=WOHS Softball Fan;36413]Underdog562 there is one thing I will say, if we do lose we will not have parents on this thread like you giving excuses on why you lost or that you played a low team. Menchville is a good team. A loss is a loss, A win is a win! Our girls do get along very well. Coach Tallon would not have it any other way. Our team is very close. True, WE are winning, but we do know that we have two good teams to play after springbreak and we are ready for that challenge! GOOD LUCK TO ALL TEAMS![/quote

Your probably right about the not making excuses part, I guess I'm a soar looser. However, I don't buy that happy little team theory. I saw WoHS in actiion last year. How rude your players were we you came to WHS and when we came to WoHS. I remember how your parent(s) post things on line about our player(s). So just becasue you change screen names don't make you different people, but GOOD LUCK TO ALL TEAMS.

[softball4girls]

underdog562,
you make a good point. I do remember Woodside's sportmanship issues. I remember that forum where one of the parents was arguing with a player on WHS. You're right dude, they are trying to portray this good team image. I think they are only good when things go their way. I've seen the coach pull that pitcher simply because she was hot headed.

[WOHS Softball Fan]

Our players are not rude. They may have a cocky way about themselves, but that is every team. We won't talk about parents posting things about players, correct me if I am wrong, some of your parents comments this year and last year were deleted. We should not be talking about any one particular player or team on this sight negative! This should be a great thing that these girls can go back and look at later! As far as Warwick's team, we know they are a good team with a great players. Atkins and Byrd are great chemistry and my daughter looks up to them very highly. It's going to be a great game. I will say this once again, and I truly do believe Coach Tallon when he said "We are a middle team (4th or 5th), but next year will be our year." GOOD LUCK!

[Peninsula fan]

Folks, unless you are at every practice and every game for any of these kids, no one should be making any of these stupid comments about how anyone acts. That is just plain immature. Every team does not perform the same nor act the same all the time. Many times one poor reaction or "first impression", is brought on for a purposeful reason and that one mistake may leave a lasting impression which isn't the true measure of how a person really is, and by the way people do change from one year to the next. This of course would include the adults involved. All of this is really stupid. How about just watching and enjoying the activities for the sake of enjoyment and park the egos at home. If Mr. Burke can't see improvement on these sites, I hope he pulls them all off line. These forums have gotten so far off from their intended purpose that the enjoyment is losing its apeal. This will be my last entry and I hope you all can come to terms with the real purpose of these forums...as neutral is I try to be too many temtations to rebell are here... when in fact I'm sure all the teams have a deep mutual respect for each other regardless of what people may say or think.
Way to many students, players, and worse, parents are using this forum as a venting ground. I have also been lured into this pointless chatter at times because of inaccurate information and assumptions others have made. Its time to bail out and get on with more important things. Good luck to you all and to all the teams.... win or lose.

[kochanie803]

woodside girls are rude. the fans and the players. im saying this from first hand experience. the fans hype up the players and they feed off them and its annoying. and then they lose. what was the point?

[twiceasnice757]

woodside girls are rude. the fans and the players. im saying this from first hand experience. the fans hype up the players and they feed off them and its annoying. and then they lose. what was the point?

Rude? Um, isn't that what your fans are supposed to do? Hype up their respective team. I believe that's a case of homefield advantage. I'm sure many schools are slightly envious of the support Woodside softball players get from their peers. Unlike other schools who only have family in the stands rooting for them. As adults that is not deemed appropriate, so, we let the kids do our dirty work. Why not?

[Lynn Burke]

Let's keep the emotion and language out of the discussion.

[softball93]

We will find out this week!!

[softball93]

One down one to go. Who still thinks they are a year away? Still un scored on.

[tidewaterbaseballfan]

woodside girls are rude. the fans and the players. im saying this from first hand experience. the fans hype up the players and they feed off them and its annoying. and then they lose. what was the point?

lose? explain. I've been to a couple a woodside games and heard nothing unsportsmanlike. Smells like sour grapes.

[softball911]

Look there was no unsporstmanship like in this game before , during or after from either teams players, coaches or fans.Maybe there has been some in the past. I don`t know. But not yesterday.:clap2:

[softball93]

If I were the rest of the district I would not count out WoHS. I predicted a loss not because I do not think they can't GHS but because GHS was not going to lose this game period! I would not want to be the next game on their schedule. Menchville will feel the wrath.

[Dukes fan!!!!]

Look there was no unsporstmanship like in this game before , during or after from either teams players, coaches or fans.Maybe there has been some in the past. I don`t know. But not yesterday.:clap2:
The Gloucester - Woodside game yesterday was one for the ages. What a great game! But at the end of the game I was embarassed for softball!! I will not throw out names but when you win or lose you should do it with class. And not shaking the opposing teams hand is classless. Good luck to both teams the rest of the way!!!!

[WOHS Softball Fan]

Warwick better start hitting the ball real soon if they want to be a contender! The top 3 batters cannot do it for you.

[softball93]

And not shaking the opposing teams hand is classless. Good luck to both teams the rest of the way!!!!

I saw that too I hope this isn't the wave of the future.

[League of Their Own]

Warwick better start hitting the ball real soon if they want to be a contender! The top 3 batters cannot do it for you.

Warwick has out hit their opponents even in the games they lost. "Woodside had 3 hits against Warwick and they had 5. They had more hits in the MHS games too. Warwick are proven to be contenders. They are only one game behind the leading teams. How many batters are hitting for Woodside in the big games? 2-3, the catcher don't count; too many strike outs in the gloucester and warwick games.