2008 PD/BRD Ranking System

[CoachBell]

4/11/08- POST - DOES NOT REFLECT 4/10 games
Below are rankings for the Peninsula and BRD
Scores used are those scores posted by Daily Press if any of the posted scores are found to be in error please let me know so the rankings can be adjusted as needed.

Ranking System:
2 points = Win
1 point = Tie
4 points = shutout
3 points = 1-3 runs allowed
1 point = 4-6 runs allowed

York 38
Woodside 36
New Kent 32
Poquoson 29
Gloucester 28
Smithfield 28
Bruton 27
Lafayette 26
Grafton 25
Menchville 24
Warwick 23
Tabb 22
Kecoughtan 21
Hampton 12
Bethel 10
Heritage 9
Jamestown 9
Phoebus 5
Warwill 3
Denbigh 0
Southampton 0

[sbfan9]

I'm must be missing something here. If you are giving points for runs allowed, why does Denbigh and Southampton have 0 points? Are they minus points?

[CoachBell]

I'm must be missing something here. If you are giving points for runs allowed, why does Denbigh and Southampton have 0 points? Are they minus points?

No they don't get minus points they just get 0 Points because all their losses they have allowed more than 1-3 or 4-6 runs to be scored on them. You get 0 points if your opponent scores more than 6 runs on your team

Example: last night's game Smithfield vs Southampton
Game score was 9-1
So Smithfield gets the 2 points for the win, and 3 points because they held their opponent under 3 runs. And Southampton gets 0 points because they allowed their opponent to score more than 6 runs.

3 points = 1-3 runs allowed
1 point = 4-6 runs allowed

NOW - Should the game had finished 3-1
Smithfield would get 2 points for the win and 3 points for keeping their opponent under 3 runs ALSO Southampton would have received 0 points for a loss but gained 3 points because they held their opponent between 1-3 runs. SHOULD there have been a Shutout then the victorious team would have got 2 points for a win and 4 points for the shutout.

[sbfan9]

Thanks, CB. At first glance, I thought you were awarding points to the losing team for allowing the winning team to score. My mistake. :o

[YC Sports Look]

Coach Bell

Good Stuff, at the risk of stirring the pot which district would be considered tougher based on the numbers you have been able to measure.
Taking a stab I would say york and Woodside may be the best in their respective districts. Further number crunching might paint a differnet picture great start though.
Also I am seeing the majority of the teams in the first ten being Bay Rivers

[sbfan9]

Is there enough BRD vs PD games to help determine which may be better? I would think you would need head to head games and 'like opponents' to help make a determination.

[CoachBell]

Coach Bell

Good Stuff, at the risk of stirring the pot which district would be considered tougher based on the numbers you have been able to measure.
Taking a stab I would say york and Woodside may be the best in their respective districts. Further number crunching might paint a differnet picture great start though.
Also I am seeing the majority of the teams in the first ten being Bay Rivers

Actually there isn't much to go on as to determine which district is stronger but based on the numbers I would venture to say there are more shutouts in BRD than PD and this could indicated potentially that the pitching is better in BRD OR that the PD is more closely matched in terms of talent pool. (Which by having larger population base to draw from, was the overall thought process years back determining the difference between AAA, AA, and A in an attempt to balance the competitiveness between teams.)

Additionally I felt that this format would be the most fair way other than just opinions. Which is what most of the rankings you see are based on, whether Richmond, Beach or Northern VA. This format can potentially suggest that a team that has fewer wins can be one of the better teams in a given district because they hold their opponent close or play closer games each time which makes for an exciting match up anytime a team plays them.

I have also tried to get something from the Beach District (Southside) to add them to the mix but still waiting on additional info on all their scores.

[Lynn Burke]

Is there enough BRD vs PD games to help determine which may be better? I would think you would need head to head games and 'like opponents' to help make a determination.

Bay Rivers teams play a full 20-game district schedule, so there are no PD-BRD games, unfortunately.

[CoachBell]

NEW Ranking will be out on MONDAY April 21st after everyone has a chance to play a couple games to be tallied into the system.

Ranking System:
2 points = Win
1 point = Tie
4 points = shutout
3 points = 1-3 runs allowed
1 point = 4-6 runs allowed


Next year with Southampton moving to the Southside District - this may allow some games to be played between PD and BRD?? So Put your thinking caps on and determine what PD vs BRD games you would like to see.

NEW Rankings will be out MONDAY

[hogan]

Why is there no consideration in this system for how many runs a team scores?

Two teams that are both undefeated. 1 team wins all of their games 1-0 while the other wins 10-0. They are "equal" in this system.

[CoachBell]

no consideration for the runs scored because teams may at that time have a tendency to run up the score which wouldn't promote good sportsmanship. That is basically the only reason it wasn't included.

[Taco]

Next year with Southampton moving to the Southside District - this may allow some games to be played between PD and BRD?? So Put your thinking caps on and determine what PD vs BRD games you would like to see.

I thought the Southampton move would not be until the 2009-2010 season?

[Lynn Burke]

I thought the Southampton move would not be until the 2009-2010 season?

Southampton will still be in the BRD next year. The move doesn't take effect until the following year.

[WoHs softball Pop]

I think it is wonderful that you have taken the time to put together a ranking system. I agree with leaving out offensive figures to keep teams from running up the score. BRAVO. Now it is time to give the folks an accurate system to rank PD and BRD teams. In your 1st posting of rankings you had York above Woodside. At that time Woodside was undefeated and unscored on. (still are) The reason your system ranked them this way is because York had played one more game than Woodside. This didnt concern me until I saw that the BRD teams will play 20 district games to the PD 18 district games. There is ABSOLUTELY ONLY ONE WAY TO BE ACCURATE. (and I am sure you want to be) You must divide the total points by the total possible points to get a percentage. Total possible points being #of district games played times 6 (the max points available per game)

I took the time to do this with the games through 4-9-08. Here are the true rankings using your points system.

Woodside
Gloucester
York
Menchville
Smithfield
Warwick
New Kent
Poquoson
Lafayette
Grafton
Kecoughtan
Bruton
Tabb
Hampton
Heritage
Bethel
Jamestown
Phoebus
Warhill
Southampton
Denbigh

Through 4-9-08 all BRD teams had played at least 7 games except 2 had played 6 (Smithfield , Jamestown) and 2 had played 8 (Bruton, Warhill) . The PD teams had all played 6 games except Gloucester, Warwick, Menchville and Heritage who had played only 5.

Keep up the good work keeping us all informed. I hope you will take the time to report accurate and fair rankings going forward.

[CoachBell]

I think it is wonderful that you have taken the time to put together a ranking system. I agree with leaving out offensive figures to keep teams from running up the score. BRAVO. Now it is time to give the folks an accurate system to rank PD and BRD teams. In your 1st posting of rankings you had York above Woodside. At that time Woodside was undefeated and unscored on. (still are) The reason your system ranked them this way is because York had played one more game than Woodside. This didnt concern me until I saw that the BRD teams will play 20 district games to the PD 18 district games. There is ABSOLUTELY ONLY ONE WAY TO BE ACCURATE. (and I am sure you want to be) You must divide the total points by the total possible points to get a percentage. Total possible points being #of district games played times 6 (the max points available per game)

I took the time to do this with the games through 4-9-08. Here are the true rankings using your points system.

Woodside
Gloucester
York
Menchville
Smithfield
Warwick
New Kent
Poquoson
Lafayette
Grafton
Kecoughtan
Bruton
Tabb
Hampton
Heritage
Bethel
Jamestown
Phoebus
Warhill
Southampton
Denbigh

Through 4-9-08 all BRD teams had played at least 7 games except 2 had played 6 (Smithfield , Jamestown) and 2 had played 8 (Bruton, Warhill) . The PD teams had all played 6 games except Gloucester, Warwick, Menchville and Heritage who had played only 5.

Keep up the good work keeping us all informed. I hope you will take the time to report accurate and fair rankings going forward.

Does PD play 20 games this season? If they do then the above isn't necessary but if they don't then I agree with the above. I thought all schools play a 20 game season, this doesn't take in account that it is just district games. Just so happen that BRD because they are so large in team count that they can't play none district games. I love the fact someone is willing to help send me a private message so we can contact via phone to chat about it. I think your addition is good if PD doesn't play a total of 20 games and I agree that the BRD will be more on top because to this point they have played more games that the PD. I believe everyone can understand that. The other way is to go back with all teams are equal with the number of games played?

[Lynn Burke]

Does PD play 20 games this season? If they do then the above isn't necessary but if they don't then I agree with the above. I thought all schools play a 20 game season, this doesn't take in account that it is just district games. Just so happen that BRD because they are so large in team count that they can't play none district games. I love the fact someone is willing to help send me a private message so we can contact via phone to chat about it. I think your addition is good if PD doesn't play a total of 20 games and I agree that the BRD will be more on top because to this point they have played more games that the PD. I believe everyone can understand that. The other way is to go back with all teams are equal with the number of games played?

PD plays 18 district games and each team has the option of playing 2 non-district games. And I fully agree with basing the ranking of a per-game average. When we do individual statistics for football and basketball, they're done on an average-per-game basis. That way an athlete isn't penalized if his or her team plays fewer games than another team, or if that athlete is injured and misses a game.

[CoachBell]

PD plays 18 district games and each team has the option of playing 2 non-district games. And I fully agree with basing the ranking of a per-game average. When we do individual statistics for football and basketball, they're done on an average-per-game basis. That way an athlete isn't penalized if his or her team plays fewer games than another team, or if that athlete is injured and misses a game.

That sounds good, so when I post I will go back to when things are equal in reference to games played it is easy enough to do with the spreadsheet I created. So Monday the rankings will be based on the majority of when all teams have played the same number of games, exception may be Southampton who still have many games to catch up with rest of districts PD Or BRD.

[CoachBell]

Ranking System is not based on just win lose record but how you compete against other teams. Rankings may mean very little to some but can make for interesting discussion amongst your colleagues and spark interst for a particular game you may wish to see in the week. What is really important is how your teams win/lose record is at the end of their respective season. This can give everyone an idea on the competitiveness of each team in both BRD and PD

2 Points for Win
1 Point for Tie
3 points if you keep your opponent between 1 - 3 runs
1 point if you keep your opponent between 4-6 runs
4 Points if you shutout your opponent

*** Point system revised as recommended so the points achieved to the time of posting will be divided by the total possible points for each team to get the percentage thereby ranking teams a equally as possible. (TOTAL POSSIBLE Points by any team is 6 points per game)

ALL BRD Teams have 20 games - PD Teams vary
Below is the Ranks based on the point system detailed above for all games played up to this point in the season.
School
Woodside
York
Gloucester
Kecoughtan
New Kent
Smithfield
Poquoson
Warwick
Lafayette
Bruton
Menchville
Grafton
Tabb
Bethel
Heritage
Jamestown
Hampton
Phoebus
Southampton
Warhill
Denbigh

[CoachBell]

These are the Rankings as of 4/13/08

[softball93]

Is there a way to rank similar to football where they take into account the team's record whom the opponents have beated. This of course would be factored in. Kinda like the BCS strength of schedule.

[WoHs softball Pop]

Thanks again for compiling the stats and passing the info on to us. I always read your posts and appreciate you taking extra time to fine tune your calculations

[CoachBell]

Is there a way to rank similar to football where they take into account the team's record whom the opponents have beated. This of course would be factored in. Kinda like the BCS strength of schedule.

I like the thought behind it but actually it is very difficult to determine a strenghth of schedule to calculate into the ranking system without offending many folks because they think one team is stronger than the other. And honestly without seeing all the teams play throughout the season it makes it difficult. For the beginning of next year there could be a preseason ranking and strength of team be processed based on returning players vs their record last year then from that come up with some sort of strength of schedule but that would again be difficult with non district matchups? If you have any ideas please keep them coming. I am hopeful this will be incorporated to a State Ranking next year but it will be based on participation by the schools and local media input to be accurate.

[sbfan9]

I have to agree with CB here. Once you get away from the numbers all you have left are opinions on who the best team should be. Besides, these rankings along the way don’t count for anything other than bragging rights - all that really matters is who wins the last game.

[CoachBell]

I agree, but nice to have something like the boys and other sports.