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[KHSBaseballFan]

Originally Posted by Dave Johnson

I'm with you, jb ... I could have a kid one out away from a perfect game, and if he taunted an opponent his butt would be in the dugout.
But as I say, I'm an old fuddy-duddy.

Ditto Dave! And it shouldn't matter if it's your superstar or 5th deep on the bench...The coach needs to set the standards.

[tborze]

[quote=justadad;129942]
So that's my question: "What are the official rules of conduct?" Unfortunately, when I did a search for official HS rules on line, they are unavailable unless you're a "member" and pay a fee (and I tried to do that but wasn't allowed). I'm guessing that's to keep spectators from being able to intelligently question umpire's calls otherwise they'd be readily available for anybody to reference (they claimed it was because copyrighted material was being freely distributed but since when are rules copyrighted?).

They are readily available. But just because you have a rules book doesn't mean you know the rules. Also, spectators shouldn't be questioning umpires calls. That is the coaches job. Your job is to cheer for your team and support your kid. In other words justadad, be a dad. Officials are not only judged on their rules knowledge, by how they are meant to be interpreted and experienced enough to know how and when to enforce them. That comes with experience and proper training. Example: Rule 10-2-6. "His right to disqualify players or to remove non-players for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute".

Can you imagine how many games would be played without coaches, or fans for that matter.

Anyway, you can purchase a rules book online at http://www.nfhs.com/c-192-baseball.aspx
Or you can call 1800-776-3462

Coaches should have one too, but again, that doesn't mean they understand them. I'm also sure at the next game you could ask an umpire, I'm sure he has last years he would be more than happy to give you.

[justadad]

<Anyway, you can purchase a rules book online at http://www.nfhs.com/c-192-baseball.aspx Or you can call 1800-776-3462>

I tried the link but it was dead. Same thing happened when I clicked on a link on-line. Maybe it's just my computer. I'll try your other suggestions, however. Thanks.

[149grams]

From the VHSL website:

EXAMPLES OF UNSPORTSMANLIKE BEHAVIOR
The following list is by no means “all inclusive,” but is provided to draw attention to behaviors often witnessed at athletic contests. Please review this list with your student body so that they will know what is not acceptable.

Turning your back or pretending to read a newspaper during player introductions – this is disrespectful.
Not standing attentively or shouting “oh” during the National Anthem – this is disrespectful.
Booing anyone – this is disrespectful
Taunting or baiting anyone – this is disrespectful
Singling out an opponent and yelling personal remarks – this is disrespectful
Mooing, barking, or making other inappropriate gestures or sounds toward anyone – this is disrespectful
Chanting such things as “over-rated,” or “you, you, you” (after a foul), “warm-up the bus,” etc. – these things are disrespectful.
Using profanity toward anyone – this is disrespectful
Using racial, ethnic or other slurs – this is disrespectful
Throwing things onto the court/field or toward others – this is disrespectful and dangerous
The behaviors above must be addressed by school administrators if/when they occur. Failure to do so is a violation of The League’s Sportsmanship Rule.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by justadad

So that's my question: "What are the official rules of conduct?" Unfortunately, when I did a search for official HS rules on line, they are unavailable unless you're a "member" and pay a fee (and I tried to do that but wasn't allowed). I'm guessing that's to keep spectators from being able to intelligently question umpire's calls otherwise they'd be readily available for anybody to reference (they claimed it was because copyrighted material was being freely distributed but since when are rules copyrighted?).

When you're the NHFS, that's when they're copyrighted. Even MLB, which makes more money than entire groups of countries, has their rulebook available for nothing on mlb.com.

I used the same link provided by another poster later in the thread, and got to the order section just fine, and was able to add a rulebook to my "shopping cart." Didn't go any further, 'cause I'm not looking to buy one.

Anyway, back to the other part of your sentence: "I'm guessing that's to keep spectators from being able to intelligently question umpire's calls". Wow. Like all you texters out there would say: L. O. L.

As an umpire, let me just say: the next time I have a spectator intelligently question a call, that will make it the first time it's happened. Normally, it's just noise, but sometimes something will filter through. And it can be pretty funny.

Bottom line is, there are rules for it. I don't have the exact quotes for THIS debate, like in the past, because I've moved overseas, so I don't have the 2012 book. But they're there.

It CAN be taken care of with a pitch to the ribs, but that's also supposed to be an automatic EJ, too. I don't know what the umps on the Peninsula do, but they can say or do something. But here's the thing: it's a no-win for the umps. If they don't say something, people post to the DP forums to complain about sportsmanship. If they DO, they get a coach ripping into them with that whole "don't talk to my player" crap and/or people posting to the DP forums to complain. Can't win.

[justadad]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

But here's the thing: it's a no-win for the umps. If they don't say something, people post to the DP forums to complain about sportsmanship. If they DO, they get a coach ripping into them with that whole "don't talk to my player" crap and/or people posting to the DP forums to complain. Can't win.

Umpires aren't there to "win." Nobody goes to a game to watch great umpires. They go to watch the players.

So since umpires are going to "lose" either way, why can't they just do what's right! How hard can that be? Evidently, it must be because with respect to this subject NOTHING gets done or even said--not even warnings, let alone ejections (I have seen coaches yank players, however, but not nearly enough).

We all know umpires aren't perfect. They're going to blow calls. Just look at recent Major League games for that. Things can happen fast, even in High School games. Player taunting isn't one of those things. They build and build with opportunities to squelch it by any number of methods. When it finally comes to a head, all parties are to blame; players, coaches, and umpires (and I'll add parents and spectators as well) but too often the effect is vocalized but not the cause. That's especially true on these forums. If the cause had been addressed, the effect would have never happened.

My experience with PD umps is they are extremely passive. In five years I've seen two ejections; one for a player running over a catcher (inadvertently), and the other for that dreaded necklace violation. I've only seen one coach get restricted to the dugout and I don't remember warnings other than once for a pitcher's body language questioning balls and strikes (I think that could be said of all pitchers at one time or another). That either means the PD players and coaches are extremely well disciplined or the umpires are ceding and deferring their authority to them.

There clearly is guidance regarding taunting it just appears it's disregarded in the name of winning.

Btw, as to your comment about spectators, I could say the same thing about umpires. The next time I see a good one will be the first time.

[tborze]

Originally Posted by justadad

Umpires aren't there to "win." Nobody goes to a game to watch great umpires. They go to watch the players.

I do!

Originally Posted by justadad

My experience with PD umps is they are extremely passive. In five years I've seen two ejections; one for a player running over a catcher (inadvertently), and the other for that dreaded necklace violation.

3 yrs ago I think I had 5 or 6. (not bragging, I don't like to toss, but I'm also not going to take any $h!t)

Originally Posted by justadad

Btw, as to your comment about spectators, I could say the same thing about umpires. The next time I see a good one will be the first time.

You must have a son who plays. I certainly hope he doesn't share your sentiments!

If I could, I would tell him to play hard, be positive, have fun, and leave the umpires alone!

HokieUmp, good luck!